The Wisdom of Our Wanting with Kai Cheng Thom

Karine Bell 00:03

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So without further ado, I'd like to pass it over to Kai Chang. You know, usually we don't read out bios anymore. I feel like bios are really important information for orienting us to maybe someone's experience and location. And at the same time, I think the thing I love the most is to have people just speak from the heart about what's most alive for them. Right now, we always share the official bios, I have a little bit of an allergy to introducing people in this official capacity. I'd much rather just hear from the wonderful voice of Kai Cheng Thom, and to hear what's on her heart and what she would like to say about herself. So without further ado, Kai Cheng, please come forward! It is so good to see you!

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Kai Cheng Thom 00:49

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Yeah. Thank you. That's amazing. I love that the bio is available for folks who want to have it. But also that you're not going to read it out loud, because I always want to just like, peel my skin off while thats happening. And then like, be like a skeleton dancing around. Because I don't know, I mean, bios are this weird thing where you write them one way to them oneself. But like, in the third person, they're always very full of like, talking oneself up. It's strange. So thank you.

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Kai Cheng Thom 01:29

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Hi, everyone. It is so nice to be here with you today, and see some familiar names and faces some very dear names and faces and then also lots of folks who are totally new to me, and I'm meeting for the first time. So, so exciting. I am calling in today from Toronto, which is also called Tkaronto, both of which are names that come from indigenous linguistic traditions. Toronto and Tkaronto both mean the place in the water where the trees are standing. And Toronto is treaty 13th territory with the Mississauga as of the Credit River. Toronto is also part of what is colloquially known as the Great Lakes region, an area bound by the dish with one spoon wampum covenant, which is an agreement between the Haudenosaunee, the Huron Wendat, and the anishnawbe that this land is meant to be stewarded for future generations in the spirit of collaboration and non violence. Today, Toronto is home to many diverse indigenous peoples. I myself am not indigenous to Turtle Island. I am a settler of Chinese descent. And as we enter this workshop on desire, just want to ground us in the Embodied Reality, that desire and colonization are deeply intertwined. And that we cannot have a fully embodied conversation or practice, around desire without reckoning with the impact of colonization on our bodies on experience and on our experience of desire and desirability. So that is hugely important to our conversation today. And I would love to just invite us all to keep that in our minds and our hearts as much as as possible and good for ourselves respectively, given our different social locations. And also for those of us who are settlers in the room, to maybe also take some, like tangible financial or embodied action, towards solidarity with indigenous communities, on the territories in which you live if you happen to live on a colonized territory, which many of us do. Yes.

Kai Cheng Thom 04:23

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So today, we are going to talk about and play with desire. Yay. Raise your hand if you're excited. I assume that some of you must be because you came to this. Okay, amazing. Raise your hand if you're like nervous or scared.

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Kai Cheng Thom 04:48

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Yeah, me too! I find desire so scary. That's probably why I became liake a somatic educator. Because desire is terrifying. It was like, You know what, let's just spend time all the time with that. So I just want to welcome the parts of us that say yes. To desire into the room. If you want to do that with me, we could do that the other Welcome. Welcome to the parts of ourselves that say Yes. Beautiful. So nice.

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Kai Cheng Thom 05:24

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And then we might also say, welcome to the parts of us that say No! welcome to the parts of us that saying no to desire. Yeah. Beautiful.

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Kai Cheng Thom 05:37

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And then we might also say, welcome to the parts that say maybe Welcome to my maybe, I don't know yet. I have to see. Yeah, welcome to all the parts of you, and to all the parts of me. And all the ways that we might experience our own desire and others. And as we pause with that little embodied practice of acknowledgement, I would love to see in the chat, anything that is arising and would like to be shared in response. Anything that you'd like to share in response to that little acknowledgement of the yes or no, and the maybe.

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Kai Cheng Thom 06:37

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Warmth, joy, being seen. Relief, it feels like a relief, wanting help, not wanting help, maybe help would be good. Gratitude. Inclusivity, how good it felt to clench my fists and say welcome to the no, gratitude, fear excitement, I'm going to start missing some as they flow and faster, but know that they are welcomed, rabbit energy, zigzagging, intense curiosity, confusion, so much fear newness of the space, love acknowledgement of the maybe inviting and joy, maybe feel so unstable, scary yet full of fun. Orienting to all this experience, reclaiming elder, desire, rabbit energy, clench my fists, feels like relief. So much fear. Excited trepidation, inviting, enjoy a beautiful dance, reclaiming elder orienting to all of this. I hear that just acknowledging excited. newness, intense, hesitant, excitement, zigzagging tender.

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Kai Cheng Thom 08:00

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Yeah. And even as we land with those, I might invite you if it's wanted, or if you're curious to go even deeper into whatever sensation or emotion is arising only if you want to and to share in the chat. What else you might be noticing. What else about that rabbit energy? What else about that excitement? What else about that curiosity and confusion? What else about that inviting and joy?

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Kai Cheng Thom 08:47

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What else about reclaiming? curiosity? Curiosity? Yeah, what else? more confusion and hope to leaning into the edges of forward momentum with a curiosity resistance, determination, fear, curiosity, curiosity, beneath the aliveness, grief, beneath the aliveness, grief, resistance, resistance, a desire to put weight down a part that says there are more important things right now. A forward momentum with

curiosity, leaning into the edges, catharsis desire, hope, messiness, sadness, softening, belly, softening belly, to put weight down beneath the aliveness, excitement, grief, catharsis, tears, hope, and gendered and disingenuous bodies, scared of what I might learn about myself if I go deep in this exploration, or tingling, opening and allowing fear, hopes spiraling up, spiraling down, or softening messiness. tears, grief, resistance, determination, hope, desire, uncertainty, hope, or scared, deep desire.

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Kai Cheng Thom 10:16

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And you might just pause and breathe with that. Just noticing what is this like, welcoming in the parts of you, the parts of us in this collective sharing, unfolding languaging poetry making?

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Kai Cheng Thom 10:39

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And I might invite us, if you're wanting to go away remembering you can choose to go one layer deeper or further just to share the chat. That sensation or sensations you're feeling had a voice and could speak. What would they say? If that catharsis had a voice and could speak? What would it say? If those tears had a voice and could speak? What would they say? If hope had a voice and could talk? What would it say? If engendered and disingenuous bodies had a voice and could talk, what would they say? If hope spiraling up and spiraling down to talk? What would it say? They would say?

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Kai Cheng Thom 11:24

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Scared of my feelings today. Confusion. I'm afraid to be seen. Let me out. Let me be heard, wanting hurts. Allow. Allow. Allow. Don't forget about me. Allow. Allow. where do we go next? More alive? Hear me see me. Please, please, please help. Please. Shame at not naming these feelings before this. I'm here. You're welcome here.

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Kai Cheng Thom 11:58

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Freedom is scary. Hear me, see me, wanting hurts. Let me out. Where do we go, help me. Don't forget about me. I'm here. You're welcome here. Freedom Movement away to aliveness let me rest let me sense I am embodied in all my incarnations. Let me rest that makes sense. I'm here freedom is scary. Allow allow allow in all my incarnations

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Kai Cheng Thom 12:16

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we might pause here too. It's okay just to be. You might pause and just notice here in this moment. Letting the pause become sacred. Letting the parts of ourselves be here if they want to, as they want to. remembering choice.

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Kai Cheng Thom 13:28

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Thanks, folks. So that was a practice that I learned from a teacher named Katie Sara, who is a sexological body worker and developer of a modality called body poem, which we just did a collective version. And if you want to learn more about body poem and Katie's work, you can find it at body poet.

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Kai Cheng Thom 14:01

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Hang on, it's not right one second, let me get the link and drop it in the chat.

Kai Cheng Thom 14:08

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There we go. BodyPoem.Org. Body poem. I first encountered through Caffyn Jesse's intimacy educating me on Salt Spring Island later in my somatic sex educator training. Yeah. So just hanging on a bit to like that sacredness and what the echoes of our collective poetry. I would love to invite anyone who would like to, to share what was that like? What was that like to do together? Maybe we have time for two or three shares. If there are two or three shares, what was that?

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Participant 15:07

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I found it really moving, because there were so many voices. But there was resonance in all of what was shared and what was spoken. And what was heard by me. Just noticing how all of those different voices landed in different places in me.

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Kai Cheng Thom 15:29

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It's like, there's something resonant and powerful about, like the cacophony, or like the combination of all these many voices that are different, but kind of echo each other. Is that right?

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Participant 15:42

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Yeah.

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Karine Bell 15:43

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To that, something that that I was really struck by. And I noticed this more and more being in communal spaces. One of the power that it holds for me is that through other people's sharing, I can tap into the unspoken parts of myself, that I didn't necessarily like the resonance with what people share tells me something about what's true for me, too, that I might not have been consciously aware of. And that is so powerful. It's almost like, I think more deeply, or I think and feel more deeply experienced more deeply. When it's kind of like in this conversation with a with a communal in a communal space like this. Does that make sense? And like, I'm like, my body, my body nods. Yes. And I didn't even realize that that part was also there.

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Kai Cheng Thom 16:37

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Yeah, it's like, like hearing voices from other bodies gives us access to voices in our own bodies that we were hearing before. Oh, that's so cool.

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Kai Cheng Thom 16:52

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I see in the chat, there's all caps. YES RESONANCE! And then it felt like being part of a babbling brook. Metaphor. Love that. Like part of a babbling brook. Yeah. Anyone else who would like to share what that was like?

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Participant 17:20

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Yeah, there was like a certain level of intimacy. So my body was doing these different things between like, sort of, a little bit of like a massaging of like, allowing the words of other people to come in and like holding it sacred, but it was like, there was like this, I don't know, expansion and contraction, it was moving through these different waves of like, Oh, I'm holding that with someone else. And I'm, you know, Oh, yeah. I don't know how else to describe it. But it was a really interesting thing, to watch my

body move through, like hearing the words, and then when the echoing happened and the repetition of it, but there was like a dropping deeper to and the the word that just comes to mind as like, experiencing a level of intimacy and in in this collective?

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Kai Cheng Thom 18:14

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Yes. Yeah. Like that opening and closing, like, Oh, we're going deeper. And we can hold that and also close to it and open it again. So beautiful. Thank you.

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Kai Cheng Thom 18:29

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So we're sort of like, dropping into connection with one another? Around the yes, the No, and the maybe. And I just love that thinking of that, like, idea of like opening and closing. I feel that too, when I facilitate are a part of exercises like this one. And I'm like, Oh, I think this is a little bit like my attachment is not coming up. I'm like, Oh, my relationship to connection gets mirrored to me a little bit like I get to see where I want to open and also where I want to close. Or like where I'm spending more time like to acclimate to closeness and all of those things are okay. Yeah.

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Kai Cheng Thom 19:20

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and I just want to say thank you for doing that. If you chose to thank you for stepping back if you chose to sit back and observe rather than share both such beautiful responses to this invitation. And hopefully, we can honor and model for one another. That being with like, the deep sacredness of our yes or no and our maybe that has desire. For me anyway, it's such a like a powerful and electric feeling. It's like one of the deepest somatic threads for me anyway. And I know that in other as it can be very powerful as well. And in order to hold that power in a collective in a safe enough way, we have to be able to honor the yes and the No. And the maybe, maybe particularly when we get a yes or no or a yes and a maybe or no, no baby, at the same time. We're allowed to want something and not wanted. At the same time, it makes all the sense in the world. Yeah. So...

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Kai Cheng Thom 20:39

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I know that rooted already has like a beautiful container in which it holds itself. I would like to lay out a few guidelines that I will hold us to as we move deeper into this exploration of desire. And the first is just that thing that we have already just been talking about, which is that each person has to choose your own level of participation. And yes, no, and maybe are equally great answers. Yeah. And I wonder if we can just do the twinkle fingers for agreement? If that's okay with us. Yeah. Beautiful. Anyone not okay with that. There's anybody questions about it concerns?

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Kai Cheng Thom 21:28

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Okay, love it. Thank you. Second guideline is that we can make space for multiple true. We each hold different perspectives, and different lived experience. Yeah, so we don't all have to have the same story. And we don't all have to agree. And we don't all have to experience desire the same way we can be different as we are together. And if that's okay, can we can we do the twinkles for that one. Amazing. Does anyone have any questions or concerns about that guideline?

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Kai Cheng Thom 22:21

the third or fourth or only for that each person here is responsible, or attending to their own needs.nAnd we are each responsible for being attentive to the collective me as well.

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Kai Cheng Thom 22:48

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So we are taking responsibility for our own needs, taking breaks, getting snaps seeing or yes or no and are maybe, but also we are responsible for paying attention to the collective and what the collective might need and being responsive. When someone articulates me that doesn't mean we're going to be able to meet every wish or every desire because collectives inherently mixed needs, wishes and desires. But we aren't going to be in that conversation together for the next hour or so, that sounds like something that we can do here any questions or concerns about that one. And the fourth is that we will agree to stand up for justice in the space as best as we can.

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Kai Cheng Thom 23:48

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So being attentive to power dynamics and different social locations, taking responsibility for our power and privilege. As We May or so we have lots of different people in this room for different relationships, the power and privilege and in our way, we will be attentive to that and named the dynamics that we see if we need to as we can. Yeah? Okay. Any questions about that?

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Kai Cheng Thom 24:29

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so does anyone have any guidelines or requests that they would like to add to our container for today?

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Kai Cheng Thom 24:58

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Okay, Well, we can revisit this if we need to. I see in the chat gratitude for the wisdom and the agreements. Thank you for that. Okay. All right.

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Kai Cheng Thom 25:10

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So what are we doing today we are exploring desire. That's pretty much it. We were just like, we are raising the somatic experience of desire, the concept of desire, the idea of desire, and we're going to explore it, we're going to be adventurers, putting on our adventure hats. I don't know what an adventure hat would look like, actually. But I have this like, kind of like, Miss Frizzle. Like energy. I don't know if people know who it was. She's like a magical science teacher, maybe you raise your hand. And it's just because, anyway, Canada, I don't know. But this person is like a magical science teacher always says, Let's get messy. You make mistakes in the TV show, the magic school best or the book series of edits. And I would love to invite us to get messy and make mistakes. Yes, Miss Brazil also often has very fun dresses, and I'm wearing what I perceive as a fun dress. It's covered in pairs today. Which for me, represents higher interest I desire pairs a lot. Now, I'm just going off track, I'm sorry.

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Kai Cheng Thom 26:22

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Okay, so desire. So we're gonna do a few experiments, a few expressive arts experiments around desire. And the idea of an experiment is that there is no wrong answer to an experiment, it's an experiment, we find out what we find out, including, I don't want to do this experiment, not for me today, it's a great response to an experiment. So we're going to do some experiments, or we will we'll choose not to and either way, we'll learn a little bit about ourselves or the collective. Does that make sense?

Kai Cheng Thom 26:59

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Okay, so the first experiment I'm going to invite us into is to make a list. A list. And the list is simply a list of sentences or phrases. Starting with the words, "I want"

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Kai Cheng Thom 27:26

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A list of sentences or phrases, starting with the words I want. And the only rule for this experiment is that the sentences or phrases should be true. Yes, they should be true.

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Kai Cheng Thom 27:41

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I will, in the second phase of this experiment, invite you to share your list with another person verbally. But I would invite us not to worry about that right now. Because you can choose which parts to share and which parts you don't. So it can be semi private, fully private or not private at all, you know, based on what you desire. So let's go ahead and make our lists. If that's something you would like to do. I'll take Oh, yes. Go ahead. Karine?

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Karine Bell 28:11

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Just one quick clarification. Can you say a little bit more about what you mean by the only thing is it has to be true.

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Karine Bell 28:18

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Oh, yeah. Just that we are writing sentences or phrases that are true for us things we really do desire.

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And you can interpret whatever, however, feels right to you and your body. Does that make sense?

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Okay, beautiful. Good , question.

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Kai Cheng Thom 28:40

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Yeah, so let's take seven or eight minutes for that. Your record you can write a great long list, you can write just a few items. You can write no items. I'll put on some music. And I'll see you on the other side.

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Kai Cheng Thom 34:14

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just another minute or two.

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Kai Cheng Thom 34:59

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Okay maybe finishing up the last item on your list that you're working on right now.

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Kai Cheng Thom 35:03

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I don't think my fade was as skillful as your fade Karine.

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Kai Cheng Thom 35:20

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DJ KCT. She's got a long way to go.

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Kai Cheng Thom 35:31

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That's okay. Okay. So you don't have to be finished your list. Or maybe you've finished your list like, three minutes ago. And that's all good. Maybe we have time for one or two shares about what was it

like to make that list? I'll go ahead and say, I was surprised by my list. I was like, oh, that's different than what I thought.

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Kai Cheng Thom 36:01

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anyone else surprised by your list? Yeah.

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Kai Cheng Thom 36:04

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Some of you. Anyone not surprised by your list? I know. I knew I wanted. Yes. Some of you. Yes. That makes sense. All right. Yeah. Anyone else like to share? What was it like to make your list

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Participant 36:23

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I was disappointed in my list, because I wanted to be more imaginative and like, you know, just like, freestyle spirited and like, and I couldn't get I couldn't find it in me. So it was just, you know, peace, and just like, every, it felt like everyday things.

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Kai Cheng Thom 36:47

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Would it be okay, if I did a little like, follow up questions about that? Oh, sure. Yeah, well, what I'm hearing is like, there was a little disappointed because it's like, oh, my desire list or my want list right now is kind of boring. Is that? Was that the feeling?

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Participant 37:02

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Kai Cheng Thom 37:05

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I just want to, like, make some space to acknowledge that, like, sometimes we're like, I want to write desires, I want to feel desires that are like fantastic and creative and amazing and artistic. And it's like, ooh, actually, just like a nap. Like, maybe that is really powerful, because I do some people, but I always desire to. And I just want to honor that like the I think you said every day maybe the the everyday desires are so so important. And magical to in their way. Yeah.Thank you for sharing.

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Kai Cheng Thom 37:47

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And in the chat, I see people sharing found the things found that the things I think I desire I don't really want. Is that a face palm emoji? palm in the face emoji, maybe? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Sometimes we were like, Oh, I don't want that. Yeah. From someone else. I struggled to read anything for a while and decided to just pet my cat because that's what I wanted to do in the moment. Once a few minutes went by, I went back to the list and couldn't get the words on the page quick enough.

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Oceana Sawyer 38:17

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Wow. Yeah, that's a powerful experience.

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Kai Cheng Thom 38:20

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Thank you for sharing. Sometimes people ask us what we want. And we're like, I don't know. It doesn't come. And then if we do something with our bodies, or take a break, or the question is asked in a different way, all the other wants to know, sometimes.

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Participant 38:40

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Hi, I had two things that I thought were really, I found most of them felt quite mundane. And I had that same sensation of, I feel like this is boring. And a couple of things that kind of, I want adventure, I want safety, which are two things that have not, they don't mix so well. And I want peace and I want to feel alive in my body. Which is pretty cool. Because I think I've spent a lot of life in freeze. So those two things have been mutually exclusive. And I just in this moment, as I was writing that thought, oh, they don't feel mutually exclusive, necessarily anymore, to feel alive in my body and to feel peace. So that feels exciting. And then I want the smell of baking just pop out of nowhere. And I can do that. As soon as I'm done this call. So good. Thank you.

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Kai Cheng Thom 39:38

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Yeah, just want to say welcome to desires or wants that might feel like contradictory somehow adventure piece to take an app to go for a run like, you know, we're allowed to contradict ourselves. We're allowed to have wands that flow in many directions. And that it sounds like there's this piece there. There's like a something to about like, oh some of my wants, I can make come true. I can do it. That's really cool. Thank you.

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Kai Cheng Thom 40:08

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Let's turn back to the chat where I think a lot is happening. I might not be able to catch every share, but I just want you to know I see it's honor them. So I see that felt tender and teary for. For a few people. It was like tender in theory. Ah, it's powerful. It's it can be quite tender to just put our desires into words.

Yeah. It was scary. There was a list of once that part of what comes is I'm finding I'm scared. I won't voice me know when I need to. And old fear that's just resurfacing. Yeah, absolutely. It can be scary. And like, sometimes it's like the opening of the door to I want can feel like it's like, oh, but what about the no and where does that come in? Such an important reflection, deeply intimate? polarities.

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Kai Cheng Thom 41:03

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I realized I want boring. Yes. Yes, I resonate deeply with that desire as someone who has had many adventures and lived a dangerous life. Yes. My desireless led to the recollection of a powerful dream from last night. Oh, cool. Amazing. Thank you. So already lots is coming up this experiment, we're learning something. So I'm just going to invite us to pause. So we've done phase one of an experiment, which is like we wrote the list, or we didn't write the list, right. And when we tried to write the list, and nothing came, which is also a very valid, like, response to the experiment.

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Kai Cheng Thom 41:46

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So let's just pause with like, Okay, so we're hearing from other people. We've done our own experiment and just like, see if maybe there's like a, like an insight in there, like a little, a little gem or a little thread of like, something that you might like to think about later. Or keep on thinking about noticing if that's there, and you might take a little note of whatever that is, but yourself. Maybe there's nothing at all. Just let that experiment go, that's okay, too. Okay,

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Kai Cheng Thom 42:21

so I'm going to invite us into the next part of the experiment, part two, which is a bit of an adaptation from Katie Sara's body poem teaching, and also, some somatic experiments that I first learned from consent educator, Betty Marton, whose email I will just put it in the chat.

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Kai Cheng Thom 42:49

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But the way I'm going to do this is a little bit different from either Katie or Betty. So just just let's just know that as well. Which is that if you want to, I will invite you to go into breakout rooms, and read your lists or part of your lists to other people. Now, some of you might already be feeling like a contraction of like, Nope, I will not be reading my list today, which is a really great answer. And some of you might be like, I would be willing to share some lines, but not others, in which case, I might invite you just to, you know, put a star or like circle the lines or something that you really don't want to read to other people, you know, just so that we can keep the convener and and what I'm going to invite the people who are in the Listening role to do is to write down what you hear and read the list. Does that make sense?

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Kai Cheng Thom 43:54

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And then you might just take a moment to notice what that's like to hear someone else. reflect your list back to you. Now, so important to like, think about when we're doing this exercise, who is it for? When someone is reading your list back to you, it's for you. And no, they don't say... that's a good question.

We know, when you're reading back, we will say "I want" so we're going to read back exactly what we've heard and make no changes or additions or suggestions or nothing. Just reading back what we have heard. Yes, and that is for the person who's listed reading. So when I'm reading someone else's list, it's for them, not for me. That's very important. Okay. And then you'll switch roles if you want to switch roles, and someone will read your list. does this make sense? Any questions about it? ,

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Participant 44:57

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I'm actually still a little confused. Can I get a model of that as I am, I'm still not sure I understand that.

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Kai Cheng Thom 45:02

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Oh, yes. I will demonstrate it now. Yeah, absolutely. So in order to demonstrate it, I could play two roles. But it would be also very lovely if someone might like to volunteer, and I will, you don't need to volunteer, read your list in front of the whole group. I will just read mine in front of the whole group. Does that sound okay? So if anyone might like to be my practice partner for a demonstration, please feel free to volunteer. And if nobody wants to volunteer, that's okay. I'll just play both roles. Oh, so already we have two volunteers. Would you would you accept to be the demo practice for this? Okay, lovely.

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Participant 45:49

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Hi Kai Chang,

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Kai Cheng Thom 45:55

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oh, nice to make some contact. How are you?

Participant 46:00

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I am doing well. and grateful to be in this session with you and all of the folks in rooted Thank you, Karine for hosting. Thank you.

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Kai Cheng Thom 46:13

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Thank you.

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Kai Cheng Thom 46:14

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So in a moment I'm going to read some of my lists to you but I want list. But before I do, I would love to ask you if there are any limits you have on what you'd like to hear today in terms of another person's desires. And this is something that I really encourage you all to do when you're in practice rooms as well limits on the kind of desires you might like to hear today.

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Participant 46:38

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Yeah, thank you that's such a great invitation and I would for now for today I would like not to receive sexual content

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Kai Cheng Thom 46:55

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thanks so much for that limit. Thank you

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Kai Cheng Thom 47:01

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Was there anything else I should know before I read you my list?

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Participant 47:07

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I am holding your share with love

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Kai Cheng Thom 47:13

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Thank you Okay, are you ready to hear and write down I'm gonna read slowly some of my list?

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Kai Cheng Thom 47:23

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Yes, okay. Thank you. Here I go.

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Kai Cheng Thom 47:35

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I want to be still

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Kai Cheng Thom 47:45

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I want to rest

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Kai Cheng Thom 47:56

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I want to be seen in my stillness

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Kai Cheng Thom 48:05

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I want to be loved in my non doing

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Kai Cheng Thom 48:19

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I want to be together and I want to be a part I want to love all my wayward parts

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Kai Cheng Thom 48:45

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I want to be so so sad but not worried about

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Oceana Sawyer 49:01

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I want to be a jellyfish

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Kai Cheng Thom 49:11

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I want so much that I have no words to ask for

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Oceana Sawyer 49:22

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and that's my list. Thank you for receiving it

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Participant 49:36

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thank you Kai Cheng

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Kai Cheng Thom 49:40

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would you be willing to read my list back to me and maybe you got some words a little bit different or you missed something here and there and that's okay with me.

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Participant 49:51

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Yes, I would very much be willing to read this list back to you. I'm ready Wonderful, I want to be still I want to rest I want to be seen in my stillness. I want to be loved in my non doing I want to be together. And I want to be a part I want to love all my wayward parts I want to be so so so sad, but not worried about I want to be a jellyfish. I want so much that I have no words to ask for.

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Kai Cheng Thom 51:17

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Thank you.

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Kai Cheng Thom 51:21

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And so at this point in the practice, I might just invite us both just to take a sacred pause.

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Kai Cheng Thom 51:29

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I'm very... And I might just share a little bit of like it was so beautiful to Hear you read my list. I cried a little bit.

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Kai Cheng Thom 51:42

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And I was most struck by the the part about I want to love all my wayward parts, which I was surprised about. I was like I know that. But then you read it. And I was like, I'm still surprised. Thank you.

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Participant 52:00

Thank you for receiving it was truly a pleasure and an honor.

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Kai Cheng Thom 52:12

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Thank you for participating in the demo. That is the practice. We used to share some appreciation. It's hard to jump into a demo sometimes! So Thank you. Yeah.

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Kai Cheng Thom 52:27

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So after that, we would switch and we're going to put you into triads just to create a little bit of extra group safety. Sometimes a group of three can feel a little bit still intimate, but like there's a third person and not just two. So there will be triads and I'll invite you to rotate through the roll. So there'll be one observer in each round. Yeah. Yes. So now that you have seen the demo, does it feel clear? Yes, good.

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Kai Cheng Thom 53:04

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Okay. So let's go ahead and go into our breakout rooms Mickey.

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Kai Cheng Thom 53:10

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Welcome back. Just take a second to reorient. It's always a little bit weird for me. Anyway, good. Coming from a breakout room back into a main space on Zoom. Like, the timing is a bit like oh god, like I don't know. There's a little bit of disorientation. Maybe let's just take a second to turn our cameras on if we want to and look at the faces. Yeah, let's say hello. Thanks to those of you who chose to do the exercise or doing the experiment and thanks to those of you who chose not to yay, boundaries. All so wonderful. I would love to get a few shares if anybody wants to but what that was like, no, no. Hi. Nice to see you.

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Oceana Sawyer 54:02

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Hello, love. Yay. Oh, good. B has their hand up. I noticed because I was in a room with them and it turned out that all of us had some we are also tender the almost none of us wanted to be there like it was Oh my God. Hi. It was like prayer. Every one was like prayer. Oh, it was so healing and I just so happy. Thank you for this. Thank you. Oh my people my people Yeah.

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Kai Cheng Thom 55:01

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Ohh thank you for that share. No, no, I'm crying that's happening.

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Oceana Sawyer 55:07

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Thank you.

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Kai Cheng Thom 55:08

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Do you want to share as well?.Sure.

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Participant 55:14

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I said I had erased the tears. I wiped them and then they came back. So yeah, so I was with Oceana and S.. And I shared that for me. When I heard my list back read to me, it was sort of like an affirmation. Andand each, the more I heard it, it was it was like, affirming, like, it's okay for me to want these things. And you do want these things. And when I heard when I was hearing Oceana listen to samples list. It

was also witnessing resonance. Because, interestingly enough, Oceana didn't read them back the way. I suppose I read them. So it was interesting, too. It was an experience in inland cash like I am you and you are me. And it was interesting to hear how Oceana read it. For me, it came off like this is how these are what I want to this is me, this is me, this is me. And the order was interesting. It was really powerful. So simple, but powerful.

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Kai Cheng Thom 56:34

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Thanks for that. But yeah, there's something quite, that can be very powerful about hearing our desires, but spoken in another's voice. And like, they might not say it the way we would. But there's something about the way they say it that like echoes inside of ice. And it's like pretty Yeah, there can be something very colorful about it. And, and it sounds like yeah, in this instance, beautiful, like beautiful and healing. Yeah, lovely.

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Kai Cheng Thom 57:07

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Anyone else wanting to share? What was your experience? Like?

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Participant 57:16

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I can share? Yes. I just found it. And I'm at a loss for words. So I'm probably I'm not using the words that I really want to use, but it's the best that I can. I have right now. But I just found it to be amazing to have listeners. You know, because in order to be, you know, vulnerable, you need the sinners, you can't just be that and then have it, you know, destroyed by by not listening, and I think it's really great to hear like your own words. And no. I never thought about this, but like, have no interpretation or rewording. And it's so it's such a calming experience, because then you don't have to try to explain and you don't, you know, or I didn't feel like I needed to explain and because it was just it was my words being said back and it wasn't like, oh, no, but you changed it to this what you thought it was. And so that was powerful. And I really I really like being listener too.

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Kai Cheng Thom 58:38

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Ah, thank you for sharing. Yeah. Our desire often comes with that sadness, or, like a longing, like Yeah, wanting comes with so many echoes of the past of the future. And there's something really different that can emerge when we hear our desires reflected back at us without interpretation. I'm just gonna share from the chat briefly. I was sharing how powerful it was to hear my own and everyone's list spell casting with the last word shared in our group, and it felt the truly felt like calling these desires into being my husband and I did it together in the car and it was sweet to hear such simple sometimes obvious, mundane, wants along with giant time, time irrelevant ones. And he remembered mine while driving and could see them back. That felt good. Maybe a new date night starter I want Yes.

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Kai Cheng Thom 59:37

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Well, frequently, this is a activity that we teach to couples. Yeah, I think that a lot of SSE's will teach to couples in in workshops. One of my wants was read back differently than I said it and the reframe opened up a powerful new reflection. Yes, yes, that can happen. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that.

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Kai Cheng Thom 59:59

I felt ah. And then there's a couple hands up, we might take one or two more shares, and then we will move on.

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Participant 1:00:11

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I felt so powerful because when I read my list, I I just felt like okay, well, this is my list. But when the other person read it back, it took on this weight. And this gravitas because someone said it was important enough to repeat it just as it was. And that's so seldom happens in my life

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:00:52

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thank you for sharing. Yeah, there's like, you know, when we hope when you create a space like this, and we create a group, there's like this feeling that happens that I have to happen in this room, I think we're like, immediately we were like, oh, when we hear a list, that's a secret thing. And to hold it and read it back a secret tells us something about our own desires, that they are important, and they are sacred. And it's easy to forget that in the dominant culture, and I wanted to make sure to, you know, at some point, unfortunately, I said like, and I think some of us experience being treated or told that our desires are irrelevant, or bad or shameful more than others. Yeah. So for black or Indigenous Women of Color, or for queer and trans people, like we have such a history of being told our desires are either unimportant, or default. And they're not. They're not. Yeah, yeah,

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Participant 1:01:52

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thank you. Every single part, and role that I played was so powerful, you know, first I was the witness, and then you know, then kind of repeating back to someone and then you know, having someone read mine and for me to read it and I am just struck by the, the energy that was exchanged amongst our group and the level of intimacy that occurred in that and after we read all of ours, there was just a very long, like, when we had all done like, just this moment of taking each other in and just being in each other's presence and held and I mean, just the palpable feeling of like, love and hope for these desires to come true. I it was somatically one of the most powerful somatic experiences I've had with just a specially with a group of strangers where I felt so good, you know, in such a short amount of time so I'm deeply grateful for that experience. All parts of that experience thank you so much.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:03:15

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Thank you Yeah, as you're speaking I'm just getting this image of you and your group I don't know who was in it but I was feeling like you were like holding like Temple space together like something blossoms on zoom with strangers online. bizarre but well, and it really was.

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Participant 1:03:32

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I felt so moved afterwards I asked permission to be able to bang my Gong and share my, my, my bells. So that was also just a really beautiful thing to be able to, to end it with that to bring again sacredness into it.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:03:52

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Oh my gosh, folks! you're killing me here. So I'm like, I'm gonna be a puddle by the time we're done. Thank you. And I can see with more appreciation in the chat. I'm going to read a few I'm a space holder and haven't had much access to space held for me. It was deeply powerful for a space to be half my

wants to my black body breakout partner, great session and apologies as I was disconnected from the chat up, sorry, that happened. I'd appreciate sharing space with you. When I heard my list read back, it was like the universe was affirming me and giving me permission. Yes. And there's some resonance around that like Yes. Beautiful, beautiful.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:04:35

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So yes, I'm going to slide this into the next and sort of the concluding pieces of our workshop because our time container is starting to draw towards its close. And I already feel like the pain of parting now as I was saying, but yes, so just access we've we've we haven't even done that much today like we've like, acknowledged our yes, no, and maybe we've done some like And like acknowledgement or eliciting of desire, we've echoed and affirmed one another's desires. And already such such stuff like powerful material has emerged.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:05:13

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And I think that tells us something about desire about how important it is about how denied, some of us are about about about the pain and the grief that some of us carry, I wanted to share a little slide that I made with you about desire, as I'm thinking about this.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:05:36

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So, you know, I'm a somatic sex educator, as I know, at least one other person in this room is, and much of the work of intimacy, education is about being with desire, giving permission to desire. And even as I say that I feel a little flutter in My Heart of Fear, like, maybe some of you do, as well like to get permission to desire, what does it mean to give permission to desire? Well, maybe it means I will be disappointed, maybe it means I will be denied. Maybe it means I will be harmed, if I give voice to desire, maybe it means I will harm someone else, always in the dominant culture, there is this, I think flutter or backlash of fear, toward design. And, I mean, I think there is like the wisdom that I want to hold from that this desire comes with a shadow, particularly in a traumatized culture, that is colonial that is racist and white supremacist, that is heterosexist, and cis normative.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:06:43

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All these words, this meaning, like, so many of us are shamed and restrained. And that desire has been used as a weapon of war and imperialism against. So just want to acknowledge that with desire, there is this beauty that is possible with when we follow desire, we can encounter joy and pleasure, yes. If we go even further, we start to discover who we are like our desires reflect our identities and our values. That desire drives us toward change, and to work creation and relationship building. And also, Desire comes with a shadow of despair, codependence being exploited, exploiting others, compulsion, disappointment, taking risks. All of that is just true about desire. And whenever we start to elicit it, it's the shadow that we often feel first or get reminded. And I just want to say, like, my invitation is for us to acknowledge the shadow is there. But to know that, like the beauty, the jam, like the glorious power of desire is also there. And what I suspect makes desire safe enough. What makes it possible to be in desire and shadow in a safe way, is relationship, like right relationship with ourselves, with other human beings, with the nonhuman world and with spirit. I think that if we are attending to those things to that right relationship, then desire becomes safe enough. And we can do it with beauty.

Kai Cheng Thom 1:08:33

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There's like a beautiful book. The title itself is already very challenging. It's I will say the book is called 'The Faggots and Their Friends.' And it has a beautiful fable about how about how violence was made and how homophobia was made. And it speaks about how once all the men were queer. And then one day, they began to violate desire or to take desire in a violent way. And this is how patriarchy and colonization began. I love this fable. Because our desire is good, actually, my desires beautiful, and miraculous. And if we are not in right relationship, then it goes in a different way. Yes. So that's what I would like to share.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:09:27

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And then to close, I would like to invite us into a group art making Collective Soul collage. So how will we do this collective soul collage. I'm going to put a link in the chat and the link if when you click on it will take you to something called a Google jam board and I will demonstrate how to use it momentarily. Okay, so look at the column it was written in the 70s. So just be aware, there's like a lot of 70s in there, and it's quite lovely. It's quite beautiful, quite challenging. So, collective soul collage.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:10:27

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The link is here. But before I put the link in, and you all go to, and I will just say, I'm inviting you to put an image or some words onto this shared document, and it is public. So everyone in this group will be able to see what you put what you put on it, just so you know, just to take a moment to pause and think about what we've done today.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:10:46

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So all the poetry and the lists, the sharing and the tears and the temple space, and the shadows and the challenge and the grief and the affirmation, just letting that kind of settle into your body and your awareness as much as you'd like. And just seeing if there's like an image there, an image or a metaphor, maybe some words. And now I'm putting the link into the chat. And when you go to it, I will invite you just to find, you know, use Google image search, or if you already have an image or add some words to this jam board that represent whatever it is you're coming away with. It's so beautiful.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:11:48

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Okay, so yeah, bringing your attention back to one another. It's time to close out for today. I wonder, yeah, I guess what I'll do is I'll take a screenshot of the collage, and then maybe it can be sent out through the Yeah. Okay. So that we have this like, group memento of the collective soul of design. Yeah. And maybe what I will just invite us to do now is take a collective breath.

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Kai Cheng Thom 1:12:33

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thank you so much for being here to do the desire that if you'd like to share one word in the chat, as you let yourselves out, I would really love that. Thanks for having me. Thanks for putting this on with love.

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Karine Bell 1:12:55

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Okay, Tim, can I just thank you. Well, I got one of my desires today came true, which was to cry. So I

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just want to thank you for the beautiful facilitation that you always hold with such incredible grace and

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heart. But know that it wouldn't be possible without every one of you here we are. This is a co creation

in the truest sense. And so all of your shares, all of your hearts, all of your spirit, all of your energy, the people we heard, directly the people whose energy we felt, I mean, all of it. I just want to thank you. When you said temple earlier, I was kind of laughing to myself because I said earlier that I want to start calling this Sunday Sanctuary because that's what it feels like this felt sacred to me. And it felt like it brought me back to something that I really needed to connect with today. So I want to thank everybody for that. And just say more to come as always because I love you so much. I love you so much. Thank you.

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